justice at the pumps? is such a thing even possible?

You're forgetting about the taxes in the calculation. Vancouver has some of the highest gasoline taxes in the country (in my mind, rightly so), so that 32 cents is not pure profit and even if was, that is about a 25% mark up. I don't ever hear anyone complaining about the price of alcohol is restaurants where it is often marked up 100%. Or likewise the price of clothing. Or the price of bottled water.

Are the gas companies getting rich? You betcha, that's nothing new. Does the government also get rich from gasoline. You betcha...that's how we pay for roads and traffic lights and law enforcement. The thing is there are people obviously willing to pay $1.30 a litre. There are people in Europe willing to pay over twice that amount. Obviously the price charged is within the market value. Gasoline is a commodity just like any other. One that we have become so dependent on that we like to claim it is a necessity.

If we are willing to pay, they are going to be willing to charge it at the pumps.

Chiming in, when a friend first forwarded a plea for action back in March - essentially to boycott Petro-Canada and Shell over the summer this year to try to start a gas price war, I had a good laugh.
My email response was this: "Price of gas too high for you? Switch to biodiesel, lease a hybrid, telecommute, carpool, bus when possible, ride a bike!"
Upon further reflection, I still don't feel this is a worthwhile place for me to spend my activism. While gouging is a terrible practice, high gas prices are going to bring more people to awareness about their dependence on fossil fuels and the alternatives are sure to look more and more attractive. The most important thing in this is that the message about alternatives needs to be out there much more prominently alongside public attention on gas prices.
>Laura

If you do not agree with the price.
Then do not buy it.
If that means changing your life in order to accommodate your feelings. Then get to work.

I don't feel that it is a political or environmental issue. rather a cultural or social one. I feel more like this is an issue of entitlement.
It in our culture we see having a car as a right and/or necessity.
The simple truth of it is that it is not.

If energy prices rise to the point that no one can afford them and people start freezing to death. Or food can not longer be produced and people starve. Then maybe it would be time to talk with such outrage.
Sol'ns in the meantime: sell your car, use a bike, eat locally, avoid doing things that require the use of gasoline.

1.30 a liter.
Given most peoples quality of life i don't think it is to much to ask. It just means a few less cups of latte, and a few more cups of reality.

Anon, you'll want to have a closer look at the study, which in fact does address taxes:

As an example of the latter, consider the claim by some apologists for the industry that the real culprits here are the governments that put hefty taxes on gasoline. It turns out, when you look at the facts, that taxes have virtually nothing to do with the price increases. Federal and provincial gasoline taxes are all flat amounts per litre: they don’t go up when crude prices go up. The federal GST does apply, but that now accounts for only 6% of any increase in prices.

 And you can't really compare those taxes to private profit – much less claim governments are "getting rich" from them – when gasoline revenues are being more than eaten up by the shared social costs of gasoline consumption.

Those go far beyond road construction and law enforcement; the health costs of air pollution alone measure in the billions. (See, for instance, this Health Canada article.) And you'll need to factor in even more costs than that: the impact of suburban living and car-friendly, pedestrian-hostile urban design, for example, or the loss of habitat resulting from oil exploration and extraction.

Here's the fundamental problem: the people who truly benefit from massive increase in gasoline prices aren't the same people who pay the bills for those shared social costs. By getting taxpayers to pick up that tab, the oil industry is getting an enormous subsidy.

If consumers are ready to pay more for gasoline, a price that reflects its actual cost, well and good. But the way price increases are working, we're paying twice: once at the pumps to inflate corporate profits, and a second time on our income, property and sales taxes to actually cover the social bills of a petroleum economy. 

Kate, I think you make an important point that doesn't get nearly enough attention when we talk about rising gas prices. In the larger scheme of things, high (or might we say, realistic) gas prices are a good thing, because they encourage conservation (though I risk sounding cavalier about the hardship that rising gas prices can create).

I think it's asking rather a lot, however, to expect that gas prices should rise only for the right reasons -- especially when it's difficult to say what those reasons might be. (BTW, I'm bothered quite a lot by a poll on this site that only allows me to choose from two overly simple explanations, and which therefore filters out alternative viewpoints.)

At least from what I read in the press, it appears that oil companies are earning record profits of late, and it seems reasonable to conclude that rising gas prices contribute to this. My guess, which I do not pretend to substantiate with facts, is that oil companies are desperately building capital reserves so that they can afford to reinvent themselves, whether technologically or otherwise, into some organizational form and purpose that can persist in an economy that is surely going to be radically different in fifty years.

Am I correct, and if so, is it right or just that money should flow to oil companies for this purpose? I honestly don't know.

There are some things I do believe:

• What we're seeing is probably what we should expect if oil companies believe we are approaching peak oil -- because a believable forecast of declining oil supply has an economic impact every bit as concrete as wells running dry.
• Words and phrases like "swindled" or "gouging" or "ripped off" are a simple appeal to emotion, and emotion is a poor basis for deciding policy.
• These are complex issues and turbulent times. We must deal with the world as we find it, not as we wish it were; any intervention to control prices is certain to have unintended consequences.

I think the best thing we can do if we don't like high gas prices is to get busy using less of the stuff ;-)

Nick Dobbing Vancouver, BC

Such a good point. I have no issues with high gas prices, but only to support environmental cleanup or new solutions to reduce the consumption of fossil fuels.

People are fickle and high gas prices almost instantly lead to lower SUV sales and higher sales of fuel efficient vehicles.

nick, thanks for your feedback. please send me some other options for the poll and I will add them right away. I felt it was an over-simplification, but to be honest I don't have such a good handle on this complex issue. Your help would be very much appreciated and I am sure you are not the only one who would like more options.

kate

Simmons & Company, an investment bank serving the oil industry, has published various speeches and presentations by its chair, Matthew Simmons. Mr. Simmons speaks from an insider's perspective about peak oil, energy markets and a 'post-petroleum' future. His prognostications are dire indeed:

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/research.aspx?Type=msspeeches

Nick Dobbing Vancouver, BC

"Normal profit margins"? "Extra profit margins"? When did we stop living in a free market economy? There are plenty of things wrong with the oil and gasoline industry, but "making too much money" sits at the bottom of my list.

Besides, why should the public have the right to dictate how much profit a particular industry makes?

At the end of the day, you can't separate the environmental vs. social justice issues. They're intertwined. Lower gas prices mean more emissions, higher gas prices mean less emissions. The equation is a simple one for me--keep raising them gas prices. I'm happy to take the bus or walk or ride a bike.

The Green Budget Coalition posted this article Pollution Dividend on the subject back in 2005. It's still a relevant position.

"And a harsh reality indeed awaits us as the full scope of the permanent energy crisis unfolds. The global oil production peak is not a cult theory, it’s a fact. The earth does not have a creamy nougat center of petroleum. The supply is finite, and we have ample evidence that all-time global production has peaked."

- James Howard Kunstler,  29 March 2007

And you guys think it is expensive now!! 

Right on Kate. Good analysis. I agree that high prices for "right" reasons are appropriate and a good disincentive. I'm not in favour of rip offs and huge profits for gas giants.

I think Canadians ARE getting ripped off and here's why:
We pay an average in Canada of approx 33% towards taxes at the pump. In Vancouver, we pay more (36.3 as per NRCan: http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2006/gas_tax-e.html). I personally don't mind paying taxes for social and environmental conservation, but the reality is we are subsidizing the wealthiest (mostly) foreign companies on he planet to literally rape our crown land (managed by the provincial governments). Is this an exageration? Well, let's look at some numbers:
We spend $1.4 Billion dollars (said with a Dr. Evil tone) a year in subsidies supporting the industry (double the amount the current government spends in the Green Plan initiatives to reduce GHG emissions). According to the Auditor General’s office, the fossil fuel sector has received more than $40 billion in federal subsides over the course of the last three decades.

So, what are we getting in return as a supposed "Global Superpower in energy" (Stephen Harper)?...A whole lot more GHG emissions, a whole lot less boreal forests, and a significant depletion of water (needed to extract and separate the 10% of usable oil from the sludge):requiring between two and 4.5 cubic metres of water to produce just one cubic metre of oil. Already oil sands operations have been licensed to withdraw about 349 million cubic metres of water per year, more than twice the volume required from the Bow River for the city of Calgary's domestic needs (Pembina Institute).

AND higher gas prices at the pump! Just what are we paying for is the question as the TRUE cost is considered?...

Solution: Cut subsidies to oil and gas sector and place a carbon tax on fossil fuels to generate revenues shifted towards renewable energy and greater incentives for biofuels, electric and hybrid transportation.

And Kate, it's ok to judge and be politically charged. That's part of being human and how change happens.

The current issue of The Republic has an interesting perspective on this by Kevin Potvin. I always like his alternative ideas; not that I always agree, but he definately provides a different perspective from the corporate media.

Highlights are: 1. We can see thousands thrown out of their homes, and the environment come to the point of utter collapse, and still free enterprise and the rules of the market economy must be observed. But gasoline for Hummers goes up a bit and all hell breaks loose.

2. If we legislate lower prices so that a gasoline company can only charge, say, 80¢ per litre, but can charge $1.20 per litre somewhere else, guess where gasoline will be sold and where its supply will dry up?

3. The only reasonable policy for government is to raise taxes by an amount equal to what oil companies have already raised their prices above and beyond reasonable profit. They will then be forced to lower their prices back to what the market will bear for the optimum volumes moved. We will end up paying the same price no matter who raises it, but the big difference is the windfall profits generated by scarcity revert back to us in the form of government revenue instead of to them, in the form of private profits.

http://republic-news.org/archive/163-repub/163_potvin_gas.htm

P.S.  I just put on a big grin as I cycle past the gas stations.  But I know it will also affect the price of everything that has to be shipped here from thousands of Kms away.  Let's go local!!  Join us at www.relocalize.net/groups/vancouver 

Er, I wasn't trolling. I really do want to know why the public should have the right to dictate how much profit a particular industry makes? I'm certainly not going to defend the oil and gas industry's practices, but can someone clarify this notion of 'reasonable profit'?

A reasonable question about reasonable profit, Darren. :)

Here are a few possible reasons for intervening:

• Very large profits are a sign of market failure. High barriers to entry (large capital costs to compete with existing exploration, extraction, refinement and distribution networks, for instance, and heavy concentration of exploitation rights) make the market less competitive, reducing consumer choice and inflating prices. (Although I believe they should be higher, oligopoly isn't the way to do it.)
• Oil and gas are critical to our economy's and society's operation. (I'd like that to change, and soon, but that's where we are right now.) Government has an interest in pursuing stability of supply and price, because sharp changes in either can seriously disrupt the entire economy. If we're going to increase gasoline prices as a matter of policy, there's a strong case for doing it in a way that doesn't impose those disruptions disproportionately, unfairly or more severely than necessary.
• The petroleum industry involves, at every step of its operation, serious externalities – social costs to the environment and public health, for example. If taxes on the industry aren't high enough to recover those costs, then we're in effect subsidizing oil industry profits with our health and our environmental future.

That's off the top of my head; other folks will probably want to weigh in.

Rob: Thanks for engaging in ye olde debate (now I've Heisenberged my observation, but that's a whole other thing).

Interestingly, Canada's Competition Bureau has investigated collusion in the gasoline market five times in the past 15 years. They've gone 0 for 5 in finding any. To quote from the most recent findings: "Retail gasoline pricing behaviour in major centres across Canada during this period was consistent with independent pricing actions taken by businesses in response to normal market forces."

I'm no economist, but I think you make a salient point on market stability. Mind you, I'd need to see evidence of market instability before actually considering that gas and oil companies are making too much money. If you look at gas prices adjusted by inflation over the last 25 years, they're almost level.

I agree with the third point entirely, though that argument needs to applied to every industry. Additionally, of course, we need to measure and demonstrate that "taxes on the industry aren't high enough to recover those costs".

I'd also point out that this is a single report researched and reported by a single person, without peer review, who works for an advocacy organization with a particular agenda. Regardless of my political inclinations, I'd apply a healthy skepticism to any such paper.

Here, incidentally, is another reason for wanting higher gas prices. They apparently result in more fuel efficient cars.

Er, crap, hopefully my longish (not to mention brilliant) retort is in moderation, as opposed to lost to the Internet ether.

I think you have to decide what it is that we are opposed to.  I see 2 different complaints.
Media reports seem to centre on John Q Public saying, "Gas costs too much."  The simple answer to that is "No, that's not the problem.  The problem is, you can't afford it."  How many wealthy people complain about the price?
This blog centres more on the environmental aspect.  The baseline response to this has to be, "Get your own house in order.  Do what you can to reduce oil dependency.  Live closer to your workplace, etc."  
Confusing these 2 issues will confuse the responses to both problems.  It's playing the blame game.  If we blame the oil companies and the government etc, we shift the focus away from ourselves.  The best of both worlds would be to become twice as valuable and productive personally and only half as dependant on energy as we currently are.  Well, OK.  Maybe just try 10% in both directions for starters.

I would also like to make everyone aware that just like the above mentioned facebook group i have started a group as well which in only 4 days has almost 1500 members, i would like to extend the invitation to anyone who believes we are paying too much for gas and would like to join in on us taking action.
Our plan is to boycott Petro Canada, the largest retailer in gasoline in Canada. This will cause them to lower their prices at the pumps to regain customers, and by doing this the other chains will follow suit trying to stay in competition, the link for the group is Creating A Gas Price War and we would like to have as much support from as many canadians as possible. Only if we as a Canadian population come together to combat high gas prices will we ever be able to pay the prices we should be.

About time someone sensible spoke up. Thanks Darren.

Economics, pure and simple. If you don't like it then move to a communist country. I'm sure you'll love that just as much. What will probably happen is that you'll find free market economies work just the same in communist society as they do in an American, Canadian or English one.

One of the best ways to stop something is not to use it - or to price in the social cost, i.e. drive up the price (no pun untended). That way, we can all get out of places we should never find ourselves.

Environmental Solutions Development Manager for
Boomrides.com
A permanent company.

"because we all breathe air"

look at the great elecrtic bikes,cars,trucks,vans and skateboards we showcase and link to at boomrides.com

something cool for everyone.

In my opinion, the big downtown lawfirms will usually prevail in the courts. These are the law firms preferred by industry.

So, if you want justice, you have got to get off oil completely, with an electric car/bike, or reduce your gasoline use drastically. Here's where to go, if you really want to do something other than attend yet another talk (i.e. this is taking action.)

Start: Jul 14 2008 - 6:45pm
End: Jul 14 2008 - 8:00pm

Drivers Who Mix Oil & Water
Video Showing
The Vancouver Gadgeteers club will show how some car owners have successfully mixed oil with water to cut their gasoline consumption by half. A hands-on workshop on converting cars into water-hybrid vehicles will
follow. July 14, Monday, 7pm-8pm. In Richmond. $40/person for Level-1 workshop.

This event runs monthly, every second Monday of each month.

gadgeteers @ operamail.com

To REGISTER, please send your payment to:
R. Matthies
306-349 E. 6th Ave., Vancouver, BC, V5T 1J9

LINKS TO PHOTOS & PREVIEWS:

http://www.livevideo.com/video/AA0FFDB3EBA14D65849B5D925543A......

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-em9a0i0zbqQJXUqZy7DEFX9kDQLrC...